Mount Baker Hockey Association ref meeting 12 7 2018


>>Doug: Thanking Steve Spear for all heís
done for the association Applause
>>Doug: Randy Kane was our past president very few members of this association [unintelligible]
know, Randy left [unintelligible] he kinda left us high and dry, he was our president,
he ran stuff pretty much on his own with Steveís help
and uh, his wife took care of the books and everything
else, so we were kinda stranded for a period of time there and uh, very few members, when
Randy was president, very few members stepped up to help him out. And uh, do things, and
one member here in particular has stepped up to organize the seminars, association money,
and still do a lot of work. And uh, [unintelligible] that is Craig
Applause>>Steve: heís worked his ass off [unintelligible],
all the time and effort heís put in, probably more so
than [unintelligible]>>Doug: Last thing, iím a guy who likes
to win, I like to be on the winning team, and I strive to be
the best I can be, itís not about me, there is no i in team. Nobodyís perfect, like I said before, so
try we try to build the best team possible so that everybody wins, but this association
has had itís fair share of ups and downs, weíve
had good refs come through — SPORTSPLEX — 2:20 – 2:45 Sorry to interrupt
Willie and Doug>>Doug: Iíll try to keep it short and sweet,
here and crap [unintelligible], but like I say our
reputation has been here before, uh-sorry our association has [unintelligible], we have
had some current issues that have put our reputation
at stake, in my opinion, I have heard a lot of
different things come from different people. Um, things like [unintelligible] we can make
certain adjustments, but we want to, I think we need
to come together as an association with a unified
mission of what we want to do here. Display that, what I want to think about,
why are you here, what are your goals, whatís our purpose,
and what do we hope to achieve. [unintelligible]
With that being said, I want to go over this list of stuff, you all have it, you can all
read it, basically the concerns I have received just
being here in the rink, getting phone calls from
people, and different people in different associations, it sounds to me that our reputation
has been damaged. So, I have been getting complaints that they
are going north, it appears to me there has been situation scheduling, that
uh, shows some favoritism, itís what Iíve been told, so
Iím passing it on, there appears to be some conflicts of interest. Uh Craig, heís done a great job
of putting this together, [unintelligible]>>Steve: What conflicts of interest are you
talking about.>>Doug: Uh, they are down here. Weíll get to that. Um, um, [unintelligible] a couple of places
they are losing confidence in our competence in
the hockey community. Um, they are seeing we
have lost vision in our mission, that we are not supporting USA Hockey and their missions
>>Erica: how is that?>>Doug: Iíll get into that now, like I said,
I have had repeated complaints from minor hockey
>>Erica: Anybody in particular?>>Doug: Thereís, thereís, uh. I didnít bring any of it.>>Erica: So, you donít have any supporting
documentation.>>Doug: Whatís that?>>Erica: You donít have any supporting documentation?>>Doug: I have it, I just didnít bring it.>>Erica: Oh, right.>>Justin: Everyone bitches about refs.>>Doug: What?>>Justin: Everyone bitches about refs.>>Doug: Yeah, yeah, right.>>Erica: Yeah, well I can name off the coaches
if itíll helps. [unintelligible discussion because Erica is
too loud]>>Doug: I keep telling everybody, but one
side thinks I am never right, and the other thinks Iím
always wrong>>Erica: I can name some officials, Er uh,
some of the coaches because I know all the officials on
WCAHA so if itís somebody who is there it would be good to know because I see those
people on a daily basis and if they are telling you
they are having problems with us I am really concerned that they canít bring those problems
to the officials>>Doug: theyíve gone through the channels
and raised concerns>>Erica: So, heís the channel (jestering
toward Craig)>>Craig: The president of Whatcom has told
me nobody has complained>>Doug: then, they arenít going to him
>>Erica: so, theyíve not gone through the channels
[unintelligible conversation]>>Justin: this is just hyperbole.>>Erica: right
>>Doug: Like I say, I am just hearing things, my ear to the ground so I want to help
[unintelligible conversation]>>Steve: [unintelligible]
>>Doug: I am not seeking anybody out Steve, no, I am not seeking anybody out. I just hear it from
being here at the Blazers games, Iím here at the rink, just I hear it in phone calls
from coaches. Um, itís
>>Erica: Is it young coaches?>>Willie: Well if itís WWU, itís obviously
Larry, right?>>Erica: Right. Is it just Larry?>>Doug: itís the players
[unintelligible conversation]>>Erica: if itís the players, they are going
to complain about everything. We wouldnít officiate if we
did it the way the players want us to.>>Doug: Like I said we can skip over all
this other stuff, you can read it on your own. Um, why are
we here is the solid last item.>>Justin: I think we should address this,
this is a lot of shit thrown at the wall.>>Doug: Ok, um like I said, I donít have
much time obviously, I wish we had more>>Willie: Start where you were, start where
you were>>Doug: uh, So, repeated complaints ignored,
minor hockey complaints from both girls and boys
teams, Western complaints regarding competence in our officials, thatís like you say, that
happened to me when I did it, I mean uh…>>Erica: So, I am not clear why we are concerned
with this>>Craig: So, these things are all unfounded
>>Doug: There not, uh, unfounded like? I donít know,
>>Erica: So, were you like, uh, so if you were at the game or if you saw something that
happened and they expressed concern to you, it would
be best if you could express that same concern the
same way that they expressed it to you.>>Willie: well, we had an issue a few weeks
ago between Justin, and Mark, and the parents and
also the coach>>Erica: Yes, so that would be one
>>Willie: yeah, that is one of the complaints>>Erica: So, we also have the same problem
with Eastern and an f-bomb dropped near the bench. That was also brought up, so those are things
weíve dealt with as an association.>>Willie: Right,
>>Erica: Are there things we havenít dealt with as an association?>>Willie: well I think the complaint from
the Western coach, is he wants a higher level or caliber of
ref to be out on his>>Steve: Who was he complaining about?>>Willie: [unintelligible] well he comes
into the dressing room all the time, heís been complaining
about it.>>Erica: Iíve been the…>>Steve: well, is he complaining about one
individual? Or about four officials?>>Willie: no, no, the thing with Justin and
Mark is just, [unintelligible] what Larry’s complaining
about is just the inconsistency of the refereeing.>>Erica: And thatís why when we had the
opportunity to bring another referee up from seattle who
was more than capable of refereeing at that level.>>Vincent: and I got an email from CHOA the
other day, that sheís going to be doing a uh seminar,
a little training session tomorrow, er on Sunday.>>Erica: Was it going to work on anything
in particular?>>Vincent: It was going to work on skills
and I they were also going to uh, scoresheet (?)
[Conversation]>>Willie: Yeah, letís not worry about that
>>Doug: thatís another conflict of, um, of mine, is the scheduling of outside officials
>>Craig: thatís horse shit, thatís horse shit
>>Justin: Yeah>>Erica: Yeah
>>Doug: How else can [unintelligible]>>Erica: so you just stated you wanted better
officials on games?>>Craig: you want better officials, really
good officials? You are going to take one of the top ten
female officials, who has the support of the Referee-in-chief of Washington, and of Oregon
and of the Pacific District, Dave Labouta would
say, I would put her on any game, anywhere>>Justin: sheís an A pool international
official>>Doug: but we have, but we have officials
in our association who have not been, have been
assigned on>>Willie: I brought this up with Steve, what
I felt would have made>>Steve: yeah, you brought it up with me,
basically a screeching match at me>>Willie: yeah, well you deserved it Steve
>>Steve: I didnít deserve it>>Willie: yes you did,
>>Steve: nobody deserves it>>Willie: well you did, you know what Steve,
let me just say this you were way out of line, so was
Craig. It was just like last year with the two girls
out there with Troy, and I brought that up with
you a couple days earlier, and you guys did nothing about it. And itís the same thing, you bring
Bree up when you have two officials, you have Mark and Anton that are more than capable
of getting on the ice and doing a game, now are
you are telling me because you didnít schedule them that they are not at that level. Thatís what I want to hear
>>Steve: Iíll tell you what,>>Willie: Yeah, you tell me
>>Steve: Iím telling you, every official that weíve got here that has worked a college
games has also worked minor hockey, Mark has not done
minor hockey.>>Willie: So has Bree, has Bree done minor
hockey for Whatcom county?>>Steve: no, sheís done minor hockey
>>Willie: It doesnít matter that Mark and Anton are members of this association.>>Steve: so, thatís I screwed up, I should
have maybe had Anton do that game>>Willie: Or Mark? [unintelligible]
>>Doug: or Mark? Thatís the bias part, very bias to have a
member of our association available, thatís not being assigned a game that heís
is capable of doing>>Justin: well, I will tell you honestly,
we as officials that have worked, have worked all year were
polled on who we thought was ready, and we gave our opinion and Dave was chosen to work
>>Willie: how were you polled>>Justin: I was asked by, what, and other
officials who work college games were asked who we
thought we should bring in>>Willie: uh yeah, I wanna ask, I wanna say
that youíve been here one year and I have been here
longer, Iíve never get, any advice from anybody in this association
>>Justin: have you ever given advice? or?>>Willie: no, I have never
[unintelligible]>>Erica: So, you donít give advice, to Terri
[unintelligible, laughter]>>Erica: so you donít give advice to ter..,
so you give advice,>>Willie: I give advice
>>Erica: ..you give advice to Terri, and I have never worked a men’sí league, that
was given by anybody, by Terri, so the conflict of interest
resides within you own household.>>Willie: no, let me tell you, uh, Mark Collins,
Mark Collins told Terri you are not ref any men’s
league games, because you are not qualified to referee do men’s league games
>>Erica: Iím not qualified?>>Willie: no
>>Erica: Iím not qualified?>>Willie: no you are not. Your not
>>Erica: So maybe you should tell me why I am not qualified.>>Willie: Your skating ability, breaking
up a fight, your a young lady and so>>Erica: Are you serious?>>Willie: Yeah. We have this episode last year didnít we,
we had Aiden and Sarah on this and a shitshow broke out
>>Erica: Just keep digging your hole, keep digging your hole
>>Willie: iím not digging a hole.>>Vincent: [unintelligible]
>>Erica: yeah you are, thatís fine, thatís fine, I will talk, I will talk to Mark
>>Willie: You want to do this right now, first of all Anton and Sarah are our most
improved officials in this association
>>Erica: Yes, and were all the same year and you know how many more games they have
worked than I have?>>Willie: This is not a pissing match. We are an association here
>>Erica: are you sure about that?>>Willie: I am sure about that
>>Erica: I donít think you are.>>Willie: the topic I just brought up, with
Steve not scheduling Mark or Anton>>Erica: right
>>Willie: Bringing up Bree, totally, totally wrong
>>Erica: So we shouldn’t put the best officials on the games we have? So I should be able to do
mens league even though Mark Collins has said not to schedule me
>>Willie: You are not, you are not, you are not to that level. Let me tell this to you right now, you
are not.>>Erica: I am not to that level.>>Willie: That’s fine, Thatís my opinion
>>Erica: That is your opinion>>Willie: and thatís Mark Collinsí who
runs the league. So talk to Mark Collins
>>Erica: I will, because Iím really, Iím really impressed, that Mark gets to decide
who gets to be on what games
>>Willie: Itís his league>>Erica: He doesnít assign the games
>>Willie: Itís his league, and donít you want to put, donít you wanna put, this is
the problem>>Erica: yeah we want to put the most qualified
officials on the games we have,>>Willie: you had two right there to do Western
games and you guys, so you guys, basically your
telling them that they arenít good enough to do college hockey, that was the message
you sent out
>>Erica: the message that was sent out>>Willie: not you, Steve and you
>>Erica: the message that was sent out is we found the best official that we thought
we could for that game, she came out here, you guys could
have asked her questions, she is a trainer for
USA Hockey, but>>Anton: You guys shouldnít do that, like
for, I have been here for about three years and weíve
always have had college games and that is the first time we have had like an official
from a different association come up here, and this
is a year we have had the most officials, like eight
adult officials.>>Willie: and now we have eight all together,
we have Dave is new here, Justin is here, Markís
come back, Doug, you know, heís not>>Mark: Where does it say in your rules that
you have to ref minor hockey>>Steve: It doesnít
>>Mark: College hockey has nothing to do, it was never even a USA Hockey sanctioned
sport>>Craig: yes it is
>>Mark: it was never, I reffed UW games, around eight years ago
>>Craig: ACHA>>Mark: Iím not talking to you,
>>Craig: is sanctioned by USA hockey>>Mark: I reffed UW around eight years ago,
do you remember that, do you even remember that I
have been in this association for about 12 or 13 years?>>Craig: yeah
>>Mark: Took some time off, yeah? So you are just making up rules on your own
and just going off>>Doug: uh, Again, letís not, letís not
>>Mark: And you donít call me back on the phone
>>Willie: Listen, listen…>>Doug: everybody has made mistakes, everybody
shouldnít happen>>Craig: I heard the message
>>Mark: yeah, You had fricken better have heard the message
>>Craig: you accused me of theft, you accused him of theft, do you see [unintelligble]
>>Mark: yeah>>Justin: are you all kidding me?>>Craig: we are still a long way from the
association>>Justin: Prove it
>>Erica: yup, this is going to be in the minutes, right here
>>Mark: you show me exactly where the money is, what youíre sending people to camps without
getting approved by the board? Sending people to camps? And spending our money?>>Erica: What? What camps?>>Justin: What camps?>>Mark: tell them what camps you send people
to? And spending money?>>Erica: Yeah, no, weíd like to know what
are you talking about>>Mark: oh you didnít, you didnít send
Troy over and, and have him go to a hockey camp? And
pay for that? No?>>Craig: no
>>Erica: no>>Vincent: no
>>Mark: you didnít pay for any of that?>>Craig: no
>>Erica: So>>Craig: Where did you hear that?>>Mark: what about, oh, oh
>>Steve: I think [unintelligible]>>Willie: Anyways, we are off the subject
here, letís get back, we are a small referee association
we all need to work together as a team and when you bring in an official from seattle
what message are you sending to our members association,
thatís why I blew up with Steve on the phone and told him that was an unacceptable,
to have someone like Bree come up, yeah, sheís a good referee, thatís not, thatís not the
question here. If we had no other referees in the
association to cover, that’s great bring her up, but you had two more than capable
>>Craig: the world is bigger than Bellingham>>Willie: Thatís not the point Craig
>>Craig: now hold on, no that is the point,>>Willie: Thatís like you and your wife
and your son reffing your sonís games. Thatís another
conflict of interest>>Erica: have you seen my kid play hockey?>>Craig: thatís like Justin, Troy we work
the western games [unintelligible because Erica is loud]
>>Willie: you know what, the reputation of this association, after Randy has left has
gone downhill [unintelligible]
>>Craig: you werenít, you werenít saying that six months ago you were saying Iíve
done great things help out
>>Willie: well you have,>>Craig: so which is it
>>Willie: Iím not talking about the office stuff Craig, I think you have done a great
job, with the association off ice stuff. It is the on ice stuff that has become a problem
and we had complaints from minor hockey last year, the Midget AAA
coach didnít want you on ice as a referee. Ok, as a
linesmen.>>Craig: he didnít know me
>>Willie: Shane didnít know you?>>Craig: no, they come up from Everett?>>Willie: Shawn?>>Craig: No
>>Willie: Shawn? Yeah
>>Craig: no, he didnít even know me>>Willie: he didnít know you? Well multiple complaints he sent to Steve
>>Craig: I am going to tell you right now I did not have a good game, it was a learning
experience for me. What I am not allowed to have a learning experience..>>Willie: no, thatís not what I am saying. This is getting back to what I was yelling
at Steve about. Itís putting people on the ice that are capable
of doing the level of the game. The tempo
>>Craig: that would have meant that would have only been you and Sarah doing that game
in the two officials system
>>Willie: whatís that?>>Craig: if it wouldnít have been me there
>>Willie: no, thereís, Thereís other referees Craig.>>Craig: there was nobody else available
that day, you donít even know what you are talking about
[unintelligible conversation]>>Doug: I have to run, I apologize I have
to run, I would like to table this for the next meeting, or
actually letís not table this at the next meeting if you have any comments about things
[unintelligible conversation]>>Erica: wait, you donít get to close the
meeting Dougy>>Doug: well I canít stay, well I have to
go>>Erica: well, thatís great
>>Doug: I need to go>>Willie: anyways, what I was trying to get
at here, the reason I blew up at Steve on the phone
wasnít to be disrespectful to Steve, it was the whole thing that we had two association
members that were more than capable to do the game,
but we sent a clear message out that they are not
capable doing the game>>Craig: no, I sent the message that I am
able to find an official better than US, who can work the
game, thatís what I sent>>Willie: nah, you got, you got Dave, and
Justin, and Anton, and Mark and myself, and Troy, and
yourself.>>Craig: i found an official better than
US to come work the game>>Erica: and i donít understand why we donít
see the value to better officials showing up and
working with us>>Craig: Are you afraid of working with better
officials than us?>>Willie: No, I have no problem with her
>>Craig: then why didn’t you want to work with Bree?>>Willie: I Didn’t have a problem with it,
>>Erica: you clearly had a problem with it>>Willie: I had a problem with the issue
is you have your own association members here, she
doesnít do minor league hockey games so why are you cutting him out just because he doesnít
do minor hockey games.>>Craig: [unintelligible] what do you mean
why? What has he given back
>>Willie: where does it say, what do you mean given back, heís an association member
>>Mark: What are you talking about? What have I given back?>>Craig: What have you given to this hockey
community?>>Mark: Oh my god, are you fucking kidding
me right now?>>Erica: you are a level 1 official
>>Mark: I have been doing hockey way before you mother fucker.>>Justin: Hey, thatís it stop it
>>Mark: and hey, I didnít say anything to you until you wouldn’t answer my call, i [] three
different calls to you
>>Steve: [unintelligible]>>Mark: after I talked you, you wouldnít
return one call, what do you expect>>Steve: I expect []
[unintelligible]>>Willie: you need to be the leader of this
association, and Steve needs to follow the guideline and
being the scheduler and doing fairly. Like this weekend
>>Craig: he is following the guideline>>Willie: ok, I got no games this weekend,
no games, Craig; I donít know why
>>Steve: you know why, I called, and your phone thing was busy, and then I called your
wife>>Willie: the games, the games were already
assigned>>Steve: they werenít assigned when [unintelligible]
>>Willie: they were>>Steve: listen to me
>>Willie: they were already assigned, Steve, because she caught you in your own bullshit
story you gave her, she caught you in your own lie
>>Steve: I donít lie>>Willie: Whatever Steve, this is a [?] and
it wants to give>>Steve: and for instance, I called her right
after I called your phone>>Erica: how many, How many games does Willie
have this season?>>Craig: not as many has he has had in the
past Willie:I don’t even know steve, i was flying
so, you know []>>Steve: so I called your wife right after,
and the games had not been assigned>>Willie: itís bullshit steve
>>Steve: and the games had not been assigned>>Willie: yeah, she looked up on the computer
and youíd already assigned it>>Steve: the games had not been assigned
>>Willie: your full of shit>>Erica: Why would he lie? He always give you like all the games, I have
had weeks, upon weeks, upon weeks
>>Willie: thatís my problem>>Erica: I havenít had games week upon week
>>Willie: thatís what I am saying>>Erica: You not having games one week, and
>>Willie: I donít care>>Erica: no, clearly you do, you just brought
it out>>Willie: no I care, no I care, because whatís
really important? That the people that need the
money, and this is the thing, in this association are the college kids and Randy, when he set
this association up it was never to be a job, this
was, this was>>Erica: itís not a job, so then why are
you bothered that you are not working this weekend, what
is the reason.>>Willie: Iím just setting the example. Iím just saying, you know
>>Erica: no, no, you canít have it both ways. Either itís ok that itís not a job, or no
I have to have games every week?>>Willie: no, I am just saying, what I am
talking about, is whatís fair. That these two guys didnít get
assigned western games, itís the scheduling system
>>Erica: he did get assigned Western games>>Anton: I did two games this whole season
>>Willie: one, he did one weekend and that was it.>>Erica: and Sarahís been with this association
just as long and sheís never had a Western game
because we havenít been developing her as much as we have been developing Anton. So we
can talk about that>>Willie: Yeah, we can, but I have worked
with both of them and theyíve done a great job this year. They’ve improved a lot
>>Erica: right>>Willie: that’s not the question here, the
question was bringing Bree up, which is what I yelled at
Steve on the phone about, if we already have team members
>>Craig: So, bringing Bree up turns into everything else? The issue is just bringing Bree up
>>Willie: no there were issues last year also
>>Craig: nobody brought any issues to me>>Willie: having the two girls for the midget
game with Troy as the referee. I brought that up, and
you guys did nothing about it until the eleventh hour, when we are in that dressing room and
teams are waiting to get on the ice you finally make a decision.>>Erica: But Sarah already had done those
games too during the course of the season. So, why is
that a problem?>>Sarah: I had done those exact two teams
because it was a Bantum game and not a Midget game
>>Willie: well, whatever. I mean the thing that I am saying it was you
had uh, whatís her name,>>Sarah: Ashley
>>Willie: Ashley>>Erica: Ashley, she was a first year
>>Willie: and she was a brand new referee>>Erica: so, it makes sense to maybe take
her off of it but why would you take Sarah off of it. On
top of the fact that Ashley has been doing checking hockey, sheís reffing checking hockey
now down in CHOA because she went through a clinic,
apparently sheís doing swimmingly.>>Willie: yeah
>>Erica: and So, it could have been completely unfounded.>>Willie: Iím not questioning her
>>Erica: no, so you are questioning her ability, you didnít give her a chance to work a game
just because she was female.>>Willie: no
>>Erica: no, ok right>>Willie: it had nothing to do with it
>>Erica: it has nothing to do with that, it has nothing to with me not being out there
in men’s league>>Willie: no you donít even want to go there
>>Erica: because I incapable of reffing men.>>Willie: you are
>>Erica: right,>>Willie: you are incapable of doing men’s
league right now. You are not at that level. You are not
at that level>>Erica: I did two level three playoffs games.>>Willie: When i started i wasnít doing
Westernís game and doing Midget AAA>>Erica: did I say I should be doing Western
games?>>Willie: no, then donít throw that on the
table>>Erica: I feel, I skate just as well as
50% of those div 3 kids>>Willie: you know what, i donít even want
to go there, just forget about it>>Erica: well, that’s fine, thatís fine
>>Willie: the question is why Bree was brought up and not having our own association member
were used for a game. Iím not here for a pissing match, I am just
saying as a member of this association
>>Erica: I am afraid you are here for a pissing match, because that’s what youíve turned
it into>>Willie: no, no, your making it into, Iím
just telling you got two association members that never got
assigned and I brought it to Steve and now look at and he had a week to make the correction
and did nothing about it.>>Erica: yeah
>>Craig: I dontí think a correction was needed
>>Erica: yeah, there was no correction necessary.>>Craig: I was bring up an official who works
UW on occasion, knows the teams and brings that
knowledge up here for a game is great>>Willie: well, i totally disagree
>>Erica: then you donít know how to develop an official
>>Craig: [unintelligible] pacific district wasnít impressed with
>>Willie: Iíve been officiating long that you social hockey
>>Erica: yeah, thatís great then how do we develop officials?>>Willie: Slowly, like when I started, I
started slowly>>Erica: so fifteen years later you should
be reffing college level?>>Willie: no, no
>>Erica: Eight years under your belt, how long?>>Anton: itís not a time, question
>>Willie: everybody develops at different rates
>>Erica: Ok,>>Willie: itís like flying an airplane,
you donít just throw a pilot, just throw someone off the street in a triple seven and
say, go fly an airplane around the pass. You start with a little airplane
[unintelligible]. Itís teamwork and we are a small association
>>Erica: well a lot of the things you have done in the past havenít looked like teamwork. Calling up
the assignor and yelling at him>>Willie: Yeah
>>Erica: screaming at him, is not teamwork and I donít care thatís, thatís only supporting
one person.>>Willie: no itís not
>>Justin: and pulling shit out of your ass and, and start accusing people of embezzling
money.>>Erica: right
>>Willie: I didnít say, where did I say somebody is embezzling money?>>Erica: a little birdís never talked to
Doug? Doug just pulled that out of his ass
>>Willie: [unintellible]>>Anton: Just real quick, going back to the
whole western game thing, because thatís just the
source of [], just from my perspective is I wasnít in the game, I just like, I donít
really understand why you do that because for example you guys
talk about qualifications stuff last year was
when, I really am like honestly blessed and very thankful that you gave me the opportunity
to do those games to develop, development, as for
me being qualified Iíve been checked by these kids my freshman year, so I have played that
level of hockey, I have that skating ability and stuff,
so I am pretty sure I was qualified to line the games, after lining minor hockey games
so, I just donít understand why last year I got quite
a few UW hockey, not UW, but college level hockey
games, but then this season and I understand there is more officials, more skill coming
in, but I donít like that there is not that much development
as well for younger officials like myself, or
Sarah here. I just donít understand why there was actually
a need to bring other officials from another association.>>Willie: yeah, thatís my point
>>Anton: I understand UW is another like, the teams here as taken a level up, like a
step up a level of the pack eight games, there are more
skilled teams and stuff but I donít really understand why there is a necessity to bring
in a high level person into the games we have when we could have just bumped up one of our
officials that was lining and we could have put
him as a linesmen just to get more development>>Justin: thatís excellently well put, and
itís a much more mature way to put it>>Craig: here, here
>>Willie: and that’s what I was, I put that across to him until he wouldn’t listen
>>Justin: it sounds like you called him up>>Willie: what’s that?>>Justin: it sounds like you called and yelled
at him>>Willie: at the end I did, when he wasnít
listening, but when I first brought it up>>Erica: the best way to fix a referee, yell
at him>>Justin: but and bringing in, I donít know
Doug, but why is he here?>>Steve: thatís a..>>Erica: thatís a very good point
>>Justin: because heís saying we and us and heís not a referee.>>Steve: heís not a referee anymore
>>Justin: this takes a lot of balls to walk into a room, a group of people that heís
not a member of.>>Willie: heís still a member, heís still
part of []>>Justin: Is he USA hockey certified?>>Steve: no
>>Craig: no>>Willie: no, no, but heís a member
>>Justin: as a player?>>Willie: you can be a referee non affiliate,
a non-skating referee, canít you Craig>>Craig: [unintelligible]
>>Willie: well he said he signed up, so, you know Doug’s passionate about the game
and he wantís what is best for the association,
just like I do for me iíve known Steve for a long time,
Steve mentored me, Randy mentored me, i have had lots of good mentors over the years
bringing me up to the level where I am toda. And so, we have a great little association
we have a lot of good little members, and this is
why Iím bringing this up because I feel that two of our
members>>Justin: this is absurd,
>>Willie: well I donít know>>Justin: this if fucking absurd
>>Willie: well I donít know what Doug is, Doug is going with his
>>Erica: it was really special to receive it over thanksgiving too
David: My main complaint about this thing right here, I hate generalities, youíve got
to be specific
>>Justin: yeah, this is throwing shit David: which game, what officials, what your
complaint is, right whoeverís complaining they
have no credibility, right? If they have no credibility I will chew them
up one side and down the other to let them know. Right?>>Willie: right,
David: But we just canít have a bunch of generalities talking about a different officials,
this doesnít mean anything
>>Willie: itís not me, Iím, Iím, Iím, letís get back to the what I am talking about
is assigning the games, Western games and not assigning our
own officials>>Justin: is this the way to go about bitching
about it? David: no, I donít think that has anything
to do with Western>>Willie: no
>>Erica: itís right, number>>Justin: it seems offly related
>>Willie: no, no>>Erica: number two
>>Willie: Why you looking at me, i didnít write this
>>Justin: It seems like you brought him?>>Willie: what’s that?>>Justin: Did you bring him? David: I don’tí think this one is about outside
officials, this is just all complaints>>Erica: yeah, oh right
>>Willie: no, Dougís been a member here forever
David: this is just all complaints, about whether itís just youth hockey, adult league
hockey, or [] hockey
>>Justin: every coach bitches about referees David: it doesnít mean anything, I donít,
I donít know what the situation is>>Steve: I liked when they used to bitch
to me to my face when I was a referee, you know,
>>Erica: right [unintelligible]
>>Willie: anyways steve, I wasnít trying to be disrespectful to you about yelling at
you on the phone but we had this episode last year and
nothing got done about it and I brought up the
concern about it and you had a week, you guys both had a week
>>Steve: alright, last year, was that issue it wasnít any yelling and screaming going
on there, it was a very cordial conversation []
[unintelligible conversation]>>Willie: nah there was, there was a little
bit>>Steve: not from me there wasnít, there
might have been from you>>Willie: nah there was a little bit of heated
discussion, in protest but it was professional>>Steve: it was professional not like what
you just pulled this last time>>Willie: [] you mean on the phone with you?>>Steve: yeah,
>>Willie: yeah, well I was upset,>>Steve: yeah, yeah I know
>>Willie: and, and a week later nothing got done about it, so, so, what am I supposed
to do about it
>>Steve: if I remember correctly you had left me a message because you were flying
out, mentioning that issue, never talked to in
person about it on the phone>>Willie: well, I talked to Craig about it
>>Steve: then you called me after your flight>>Willie: I talked to Craig in the morning
>>Steve: so anyway I, I move to, we uh end this meeting, itís gotten very contentious
>>Vincent: Sarah has, Sarah has a quick question>>Sarah: I just have a quick clarifying question,
about everyone, is you know talking about the
thing with Bree, my question, was she brought in, just sort of by an opportunity, that she
just happened to be free, Or have we been actively
searching her out asking? Because I feel if itís
just a coincidencidenal opportunity, that she was able to come, like then the complaints
is still valid but that ends up being more of, I feel
of, a communication issue with people, hey we have
this opportunity should we bring Bree up, verses, you know instead of searching, actively
searching out thatís a different, you know that’s a different type of issue
>>Craig: for the last four years whenever we couldnít get at least three officials,
or four these last two years, uh, so this year Justin came in
and was able to skate with us quite well, um, with
Anton quite a lot, but whenever it wasnít Willie, me, Troy, this year Justin to work,
and I think last year it was Anton working
>>Anton: And also, that, that, that one weekend when I said I had been down in Seattle, Craig
had actually also asked me if I could do that
game, that was questionable if I could do it or not,
unfortunately I had like family matters I had to attend to, so there was no way to,
but I was asked, there was that
>>Craig: um, Steve has always said, do you think you can get another official from Seattle,
and everytime one of us upper level have not been
unavailable, I have called down to Mike Ellis in
Seattle and said hey you got one, two officials, $40 for gas you come up, whatever,
can you send somebody, one time three years ago, Mike Ellis came for a game
>>Willie: and I remember that>>Craig: and this time, the first time since
then I had an official that said hey I can do it, great
>>Willie: thatís fine>>Craig: itís a standard operating procedure
if one of our top officials is not going to be available,
to try to get somebody from Seattle>>Willie: k, that’s not, thatís not the
proper way to do that. The problem is you have association
members here that were able to do the game, so, so thatís, am I missing something here. What
is the signal you are sending out, to your referee association members that you are not
using them for tonightís game?>>Craig: the signal is, get better, the signal
is, weíll use you when we canít find somebody better,
because Iíve been in those shoes before, there were four years here before I got to
work any Western games, because there were better officials
here, right? Better officials than me?>>Willie: yeah well, thatís all a part..>>Craig: did I turn around and whine, complain,
and bitch because I wasnít getting games even
though ten years ago I was a college official in Eugene
>>Willie: but we didnít, we didnít bring referees from Seattle to replace you
>>Craig: you didnít have to>>Willie: no, no, thatís what I am saying,
thatís my whole point. So, I mean, so say, so next
Western game Justin and I donít ref>>Craig: depends upon the []
>>Justin: I think we are trying to put the best officials we can on the ice, when I came
from colorado, we had, until the college ran out
of money to bring in out of town officials, they brought
in our crew was a mixture of in town and out of town all the time, because there was mix
of faces and there was brining in, I refereed
with the Colorado referee-in-chief once, they, they
>>Willie: thatís what we do for the Blazers>>Justin: they brought in people of a very
high level.>>Willie: we do that all the time with the
Blazers are all over the region, out of the pool
>>Justin: Honestly, itís easy for me to say because I got to referee that game with
Bree, itís easy for me to say, and I understand your concern
>>Anton: no I understand>>Justin: but for me, thatís probably the
highest level referee I will ever step on the ice with, in my
lifetime and that was a privilege, it was good to work with her, and I learned,
>>Willie: Yeah, you and I could have learned something
>>Justin: I learned a lot about ice presence. I learned that a 5í 9î girl can referee
a college hockey game.>>Willie: yeah, thatís not the point, thatís
not the point I’m making sheís a good referee>>Erica: yeah, thatís the point, behind
it>>Willie: Thatís not the point
>>Justin: it is the point>>Erica: that was the reason why she was
brought in.>>Willie: well if Mark and Anton weren’t
around, then I would say then thatís totally different, and if
Dave was busy, and everyone else is occupied out of the association, then I would say then
thatís great bring in another referee.>>Justin: the point i am trying to make it
was an opportunity for three of our regular college the
crew, that we normally do those games with, to learn with someone higher
>>Willie: yeah>>Justin: because we can, everyone can learn
>>Willie: oh yeah, thatís the whole thing about the game, is, itís no different than
flying an airplane, itís all about learning
>>Justin: itís easy for me to say, because I got to work that game, but that was a privilege
and a learning experience for me
>>Willie: and I enjoyed it too, I just felt bad for two member of our association not
being on the ice>>Justin: yeah, and thereís other weekends
but I thought, I am used to, but where I came from I
am used to out of town refs coming in to work college games
David: just going back to the Western thing, i want to sort of step back a little bit,
but if I was the coach of Western, I wouldnít want to see
the same three or four people refereeing the hockey
game, Iíd like to know many people within this organization is qualified to be the referee
but it should be at least five or six so itís always
different people. Right?>>Willie: right
David: Because what happens is alway s have the same referee then that coach, and that
referees are going to butt heads and different things are going to happen
>>Willie: Right David: I donít know if thereís a pool or
not. But as far as lining there are a lot people
in this organization that can be one of the two linesmen
>>Willie: right Dave: right, but going outside only if you
really have to, otherwise if you have can find
somebody and itís rotating around a little bit, it should stay within the organization
>>Justin: Fair enough>>Willie: and that was my whole point, I
phoned Craig Sunday morning on my way out, and I
phoned Steve, didn’t get ahold of him, that was my whole concern, and I talked cordial
with Craig, I said Craig I do not think this is
a good idea bring in Bree when you have other officials in
the association. And then when I talked to Steve, the first
comment I get out of Steveís well Mark doesnít work minor hockey league games,
he doesnít deserve to do college games, and I
go, where is that itís not written in our by-laws that say you have to do minor hockey
league games or you canít do a Western game
>>Justin: I think you should have to work the $15, the games that pay fifteen bucks
to get the>>Willie: well, thatís you and I but heís
got a full time job and he has to work weekends or
whatever, he has a different job and sometimes I have to go away on the weekends so, I am
not around
>>Mark: and, and Iíll stop you right there, in the past I couldnít do games, because
of my job, I lived in Anacortes, but this year I think
I did ask you Steve was there any other camps, my
schedule change, I did the week and then the week very next week I was out of town. I couldnít
do the camp you guys had, so I wasnít able to do it.So, I asked you, was there any other
way because I wouldnít mind doing minor league
hockey? Did I not say those words to you?>>Steve: well, you probably did
>>Mark: yeah,>>Steve: I probably didnít know where there
were>>Mark: you said all the camps were done. So prior to this year, I could not do minor
league hockey here, because coming from Anacortes
to ref one game on a weekend when I only had Saturday off, it was just restrictive, this
year my schedule is a little more flexible, I have my
daughter, I can pop over, I live five minutes from the rink, itís not a big deal so and
I offered that up and I even said there is nothing, unfortunately
you canít do it unless you take the Canadian class, I was even willing to go to Canada
do that, so I just donít agree with>>Craig: so didnít he tell you to call me?>>Steve: I did do that, I told you to call
him>>Craig: because I could have told you exactly
in canada to get the information>>Mark: I donít remember that
>>Craig: given you a list of clinics? Some of the closest ones?>>Mark: if you knew that, then you should
have called me,>>Craig: if you wanted it, you would have
called me>>Mark: it sounds like you know
>>Anton: Why isnít Mark getting the games? Is it a certification reason, qualification
reason? Minor
hockey games? Group response: you have to be Canadian certified
to do the minor hockey games>>Erica: he could do exhibition games that
are USA Hockey>>Anton: Gotcha
>>Steve: itís too bad, because weíve been fighting that for years, get that out of the
way>>Anton: absolutely
>>Craig: here with the Pacific Coast itís the only place along the border that we have
to put up with this crap, even back in Spokane Steve Stevens
broke them of that>>Willie: Any ways, I got to go guys, but
my concern is as a long term member of this association,
I was just caring about our own people first, which is Mark and Anton, and the rest of you
guys, and I ain’t taking any personal sides, and
I talked to Craig and then I talked to Steve, and then I
blew up at Steve. When nothing, when I came back from my trip,
when nothing , And it just goes to show, itís sending a message out to our
association that these two guys are not good enough
to do the games, but they are good enough. I donít care about the Bree thing. Like, theyíve said,
thatís the point I am trying to make, they are more than qualified to do these games,
you know and so, thatís just being a member of this
association. I mean and, and you know like with
Sarah, and Anton, and Vincent, theyíve come a long ways and yourself as a referee
>>Erica: but Iîm not good enough to mens league so that doesnít really matter
>>Willie: no your not, no your not, thatís not me, Itís not me, I’m not saying that
thatís Mark Collins>>Mark: you should just talk to Mark Collins,
you shouldnít be talk to him about that, it has nothing
to do with David: Itís probably skating ability versus
the knowledge and ability to officiate>>Willie: Mark Collins has told my wife that
sheís not to do any of the men’sí league>>Erica: So I was scheduled to do a Div 3
and Div 4 game at the beginning of the year and havenít
gotten anything since.Iíve just given up trying to fight the battle
>>Willie: thatís not me, Iím telling you thatís not me, Iím not the scheduler, I
sleep with her, but I am not the scheduler, right
>>Erica: Safesport [Laughter]
>>Willie: that comes from not her, itís Mark Collins
>>Erica: all right, Iíll talk to him>>Craig: I understand your concern, and I
do appreciate that you want to develop officials from
within,>>Willie: Yeah,
>>Craig: I do appreciate that, ok, and I take that into consideration
>>Willie: I feel, I>>Craig: in regard to what Dave said, in
regard to having five or six people who are capable of
reffing at the college level, and weíve got four
>>Willie: we have seven, there are five right her, or six
>>Craig: we have seven capable of lines, and four that can wear the armband, we are
confident of can wear the armbands for sure
>>Anton: Referee versus Linesmen>>Willie: yeah, ok
>>Craig: now hereís the thing, one was missing one night
>>Willie: Troy>>Craig: ok, now one of us would have gotten
doubles, but I was able to find someone else who
able to ref, to shake it up, teach, come up, show us, as is common practice for the last
three years, whenever one of our top officials hasnít
been here. I call up and ask. For this particular
games I wouldnít have taken just any official they would have sent me, or I would have put
him on the lines, but I probably wouldnít have
because Anton can work the lines as well anyone else
they would have sent up. But they were able to send me a good ref,
so I took the good ref. Thatís all there was to it. David: Can I just ask who were the two referees? I guess Justin and Bree were the two
referees, who were the two linesmen in this particular game?>>Justin: no, Willie and I were lines
>>Erica: Craig and Bree, were the refs>>Willie: Craig and Bree, were the refs,
Justin and I were the linesmen>>Craig: Then the next night
>>Justin: Willie and I were refs.>>Craig: you guys were the refs
David: Iím just saying one of you guys, could have lines and if you wanted her to have reffed,
to balance it out amongst the other three, Iím
just saying that you guys need to be fair within the
association but also with in the association there is different skill levels, whether itís
just skating ability, knowledge of the game, uh, whatever,
we arenít all the same. So somebody needs to
come up with a pecking order to give appropriate games to different people
>>Willie: anyways, I have to go, that was my concern as a member of the association,
I do appreciate everything that Craig has done,
and that Steve has done, my concern was our own
members of the association and I was standing up for both Mark and Anton on this issue. And
so, Steve, I didnít do it disrespectful, you know me Iím an Irish/Scottish blood circulating,
and I say things sometimes, it just comes from my
heart but itís not personal attack, was just, the
personal attack was these guys wasnít get represented and I talked to Craig Sunday morning
and itís the same thing, and I donít want to go over it, weíve gone over it, a whole
bunch of times, I love you guys, we have a great little
group of referees in this association, we need to
work together as a team, and we need to get along with everybody, and I think we do, I
think we, Iíve never had any issues on the ice with
any of the, people on the ice that we referee with, we
all have a good time right, we all have a good time, thatís what itís all about, and
that’s not what I am mad about, Iím mad about we let down
our own members in this association, Breeís a
great referee, that’s not the question here, the question is bringing her up was, the question,
and itís got nothing to do with women, because
I love reffing with you, and Sarah, and Ashley last
year, so>>Justin: I just donít understand this
>>Willie: thatís a Doug thing, I mean>>Justin: why is he here?>>Willie: well heís, heís, you know, heís
been reffing since he was a little kid>>Justin: but heís retired
>>Willie: but heís still you know>>Steve: but he had the gaul to call a meeting
you know on his own and heís not even>>Willie: well, you know Doug
>>Steve: I know Doug>>Willie: you know Doug
>>Steve: thatís way above you know>>Willie: well, heís still a member, so
uh, I think heís still USA hockey official member, so
>>Craig: he wasnít last year>>Willie: Yeah,
>>Erica: no>>Willie: but he is this year he did the
clinic in Bremerton so, yeah,>>Erica: thatís news
>>Willie: he did the clinic in Bremerton and heís all signed up, well, thatís what
he told me anyways. So, I mean you can go look online right? Anyways, I got to go set the nets, anyways
you guys>>Craig: alright
>>Justin: have a good one David: thank you
>>Willie: have fun this weekend>>Anton: alright
[] David: any other thoughts, this being my first
meeting, I have been at I am probably the newest
official here []
Itís nothing like this>>Craig: they are normally like the first
half, so, somebody is upset about something;>>Anton: I just want to say the whole idea
with the test study session with because I like, I can look
at the NCAA rules, but if I can sit down and have officials who are better than me obviously
and have a study session thatís a great idea
>>Justin: the ACAís rules arenít totally well organized, if thatís a way to put it. I mean, I have had
that test before at the last three years and it was the same test every year with the answers
[laughter]>>Justin: and sign and circle the same answers
that were already marked and mail it to the ACA
referee-in-chief in colorado and that was our certification
>>Anton: I am not as much talking about the test itself, but just to sit down and talk
about>>Justin: but to sit down and talk about
it>>Anton: yeah, exactly
>>Justin: rather than to just five minutes before the game
>>Craig: maybe I can get somebody to get the test ahead of us []
David: I didnít do too bad with the five or ten minute training
>>Craig: I mean itís hockey in the end bug []
>>Anton:[] David: have you refereed the western games,
or just lines?>>Anton: with the bands, no, just lines
David: no, just lines. Ok
>>Steve: youíll be here Feb 7th right?>>Anton: yeah, I should be
>>Erica: yeah, itís the Eastern game>>Anton: steve you said that, it was an accident
or whatever, I am fine with that. As far as that is
concerned.>>Steve: I appreciate that,
>>Erica: so you want to adjourn,>>Anton: Iíd like to adjourn
[unintelligible]>>Erica: so, Anton, and everybody secondddedd
it

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