ParaAnaliza 1- paragliding crash ENsub


Welcome to new series called para-analysis I’m Jarek and Jarek and Jarek. that’s it. Together with Jarek, we came up with idea of showing paragliding incidents and on live video explain what went wrong how it could have been avoided We hope it will be interesting series We will see about the feedback so for now 1st episode if you guys gonna like it leave us a comment and we will continue the series because there’s no shortage of material. Right Jarek? I think so. Its a experiment in a way but I hope someone will like it So here we have first example of the movie We should emhasize that I will be commenting on a bulk of technical aspect I need to bring out, that what we are seeing doesn’t have to be 100% adequate to the situation those are only our subjective opinions, based on what we see but we would like to focus on technical part of what we see So pilots who will watch this in the future could benefit from that I have much less experience then Jarek So I think such a duo, in such a form, will be good because, I’ll be looking at it from a perspective of a pilot who flies for 3-4 years and I wont be picking up such a moments which Jarek will notice Therefore I think our conversation in this field, and in the particular film could be interesting and prolific OK we will try to start. Welcome. So we have 1st film It’s a situation which resulted with a paragliding accident and I think it’s a Polish pilot Based on comments on YT We will play it shortly and try to analyse it what happened there What pilot did wrong and what could he have done better, to avoid such a situation So we will start with playing the movie Lets watch the entire film, from start to finish I hope everyone can see it The pilot approaches the landing Something pulls him up and BOOM! we watched that at normal speed now we will watch it in slo-mo so we can analyse that from start to finish I just paused the film, and I hope Jarek is still there, and internet lags didn’t eat him I’m still here I had a temporary lag OK. I paused the film, and now I’ll try to move forward step by step, all right? Sure So the pilot is approaching the landing and as far as I can see here He’s most probably flying Gradient Golden 3 from what I can see We only have one take available here we see the pilot on landing approach and we see him from the back Therefore will be quite difficult to determinate the angle of attack of the wing relative to the pilot Nevertheless, we can observe a lot of things here So that’s what we would like to focus on now. I’ll play it now Most probably the pilot on the landing approach, is being pulled by some kind of turbulence or a thermal bubble We don’t know if that’s a result of rotor caused by a wind direction We don’t know the wind direction Something pulls him up The pilot flies with a right amount of brakes He brakes gently, the controls are in symmetrical position Trailing edge is slightly bent downwards but he’s still climbing And because he is climbing, I think the wing is falling behind him quite a bit and now we reached the point where the pilot I think he got scared I don’t know who he is, and what’s his experience But I think he got surprised by this turbulence and when he started to climb fast and maybe he felt… What did you say Jarek? I said he weight shift or as you said, because of the fear when he felt that bubble It’s difficult to say, what did he want to do but clearly he weight shift right and we can see this arm but, Jarek please continue As Jarek said, we can’t be sure what was his motives It’s possible he got a bit scared But we can clearly see, that the right brake much more on the right side than on the left Judging from the look of trailing edge and the deformation of the wing we can tell that he also leans to the right with his body entire load is on the right part of the wing Right side of trailing edge is much more bent than left side Therefore in this configuration airflow separates from the wing on the right side Pilot, because of his overreaction I assume, stalls right side of the wing, and goes into a spin Additionally Front of the wing starts to deform In my opinion, this deformation is caused by the turbulence this wing doesn’t fly any more Right side of the wing doesn’t fly any more Atrophy of lift occurred and he will start rotating in a spin Further we can see, that pilot is totally surprised by the whole situation and we can observe so called “heavy arms effect” so the pilot is trying to grab something in the air but really, there’s nothing to hang on to because the wing doesn’t fly any more and his arms are still way down And further, till the very end he is in a spin, and crashes I’ll rewind a bit so we can see it again Till the end the right hand is down As we said before Evidently, we can see him lifting the left arm up which causes acceleration of the left side and the right side is being slowed down which results in rotation exactly right Airflow detaches from the wing on the left side right side is flying with large angle of attack and the left side, because pilot lifted the brake all the way up, flies with smaller angles of attack, which causes change of the direction rotation and spin This is my opinion, why this situation took place now I think we should ask the question, what could he have done better to avoid this situation Exactly I’ll rewind a bit, and play it again and I know this glider quite well, as I flew on it a few years back in Bassano and I know that brake range on this glider is medium Neither very long, nor short However with larger angle of attack despite, it’s a wing class EN-B I can tell you,its very easy to stall which just have been proved on this movie and the pilot here, all the time flies straight, with the controls, pulled symmetrically the thermal takes him up In my opinion, golden rule is if we feel the wing falling behind us and we can sense that, trough change of forces on risers and harness we should let the controls up here it would be enough to lift the controls 10cm up and he would maintain hid body symmetrical in the harness further if he would do it I assume, if there was really some strong turbulence most probably, there would be deformation of one side of the wing so most likely he would have asymmetric collapse I can only assume that’s what would happen I know this wing, and I know if he would remain calm and kept his body in the centre of the harness and after the deformation, if he would weight shift to the left, slightly and he would left the brakes at the same height Probably nothing dangerous would happen but because of his actions, it ended up with a spin Probably he would have asymmetric collapse the wing would change flight direction a bit but after a short while, it would come back to previous flight direction and he could land, in this configuration It’s even possible to land with only half of the wing open, if the pilot can remain cold blood and can keep the wing flying straight We don’t know why did he do it this way There was some action but no reaction. He did overreact on the right hand side At this point he couldn’t do too much anyway, as he was already falling backwards but we can see that his arms are down, all the way to the ground I think we know everything. Don’t we? I’m not sure what else can we add to this Here we can see from the perspective of the pilot how quickly that happened I’ll rewind once more, so everyone can see Exactly, because we are discussing it here, and in reality this takes split of a second As a result of this accident, we could see that in comments, on YouTube the pilot broke some bones, but I can’t recall, which exactly And if I go back to this moment, we can see he fell from quite a height roughly about 10 meters yes, for sure I think that would be it, on my part I’m not sure if I can add more to that I think we choose great film, for the first episode of the new series of ParaAnalysis We hope you will like the form of it Along with Jarek, will do our best to fine-tune those materials, more professionally For pass few days we were trying to figure out the equipment, and how to assembly everything the way you see it now Concerning the analysis, it’s worth to remember that it is only our subjective analysis and it doesn’t have to be correct Jarek has approximately 20 years of experience in this sport, so consequently he knows a lot but nobody knows everything So there will be always an argument and a dispute regarding such a situations But we hope you will enjoy it We will continue, as long as the time permits We can’t promise one episode per week, or per month We deeply believe, we will be able to continue And your interest, because we do it mostly for you guys, will be large Right Jarek? That’s right. I would like to add this first episode was totally off-the-cuff, where many things have to be improved, when it comes to equipment configuration We would like to invite all of you for the next episode Right Jarek? I hope so I we gonna get positive feedback and the paragliding community would like to see more I hope we can find 15-20 minute every once in a while To share our opinions Thank you very much Jarek, thank you as well and I hope we will talk soon again, and maybe we will fly together some time We have met already twice but somehow I wasn’t lucky, then you Neither of us got lucky on Javorovy yes, we met at landing on the LZ I’m sure we will record something interesting Ok, take care, bye, ciao

21 thoughts on “ParaAnaliza 1- paragliding crash ENsub

  1. Tak, wasza analiza moim zdaniem jest poprawna takich wypadkow przy ladowaniu jest cala masa ,pracojac w Klinice Powypadkowej na OP w Alpach dostajemy takich przypadkow wiele.Rozmawiajac z pilotami wychodzi z tego ze nadreagowuja w sytuacji gdy przy ladowaniu maja wznoszenie ,ale chca koniecznie wyladowac w miejscu z gory zalozonego przez siebie przyhamowuja i dochodzi do przeciagniecia no i upadku , zamiast nawet przeleciec ladowisko, jak nato miejsce pozwala lub ladowac jak spadochroniarze to robia.

  2. Czołem Koledzy moim skromnym zdaniem, na filmie widać że jest wieksza czescia skrzydla w opadajacej masie i to że wisi na boku jest naturalne, nikt nie jest w stanie wisieć na drugiej w takiej sytuacji. Jedyny problem to taki że zawiesił się na starówce chcąc się podeprzeć. Potem to już podpórka obu racz, jak mowiliscie. Generalnie był na tyle wysoko że gdyby podniósł rączki to skrzydło by ruszyło do przodu. Wylądował by kawałek dalej moze w lekkim wachadle. Generalnie sytuacja trudna do opanowania dla niedoswiadczonego pilota, bo mało czasu.

  3. Pomysl swietny. Zdecydowanie brakuje mi na polskim yt analiz wypadkow pg czy ppg na wzor pogadanek Iwana o wypadach w spadochroniarstwie. Jestem za!!!

  4. pytanie mniej doświadczonego: co to znaczy przy lądowaniu, że "skrzydło jest odpowiednio przyhamowane"? jaki pozytywny skutek ma mieć jakiekolwiek przyhamowanie skrzydła w czasie lądowania? nie powinno się do 1-2 m nad ziemią podchodzić na pełnej prędkości?

  5. Kurcze, tak oglądam ten i filmik i zdałem sobie sprawę że zrobiłbym to samo co ten gość. Mam naturalną tendencję do utrzymywania obciążenia na sterówkach i z chwilą wypompowania skrzydła ręce poszłyby na dół, dokładnie jak na filmie. Ciężko przełamać odruch zaciągania sterówek, jak skrzydło łapie fronta i mięknie. A tu okazuje się trzeba rączki w górę. Z przeniesieniem ciężaru też chybaby nie wyszło, za mało czasu. No cóż, ale ja to taki zielonkawy jestem i trzeba mi się od innych uczyć. I jeszcze jedno. W takiej sytuacji rządzą odruchy, nie ma czasu na analizy. A my teraz mamy taki komfort i trzeba z tego korzystać. Film super – proszę o jeszcze.

  6. Róbcie te filmy i analizy dalej, bo pewnie kilka kości połamanych będzie mniej, a to już warto. Za dużo tylko się tłumaczycie, że wasza ocena jest subiektywna, że możecie się mylić i takie tam, ale ogólnie film bardzo OK.

  7. The authors describe the situation well (which is important). But they should waste more time summarizing one conclusion: on what caused the accident; and what the pilot might have done to avoid it. This pause for summary or conclusion did not exist, which made the explanation, at least for me, very vague and scattered.

    But after reviewing the video several times I realized that, according to the authors, the accident was caused by:
    • The pilot overreact with the rigth brake because he was frightened by the reaction of the wing and caused the stall on the right side of the wing and consequent spin and fall. However, further on, they say that the collapse of the leading edge has already been caused by a turbulence and not by the reaction of the pilot. This is the first contradition.
    • Soon after, they say that the wing was no longer flying at that moment. For me this observation is not correct, because the left side of the wing, at that moment, continued to fly, and flew to the end, as we can see in the video. So much so that the wing flew, that we can see that it even made a helicopter effect. This effect, in fact, diminishes the speed of the fall. If the wing, as a whole, had stopped flying, the pilot's fall would have been much more choppy and violent.
    • At one point they said that this wing went into stall very easily, which is what happened in this accident. So I ask, was the problem then caused by the exaggerated reaction of the pilot or was the wing that stalled very easily? This is for me the second contradition.
    • The authers also said that thepilot should stay calm, cool-blooded, keep the brakes at the same height (hands above) that nothing would happen. But because of his action went into spin. But they recognize that everything happened in a fraction of a second. I think the pilot would not have time to have that cold blood all over. This is, for me, the third contradition.
    • They say the pilot acted and did not react. But the authors acknowledge that the pilot had overreacted in several situations. Overreacting is to react, only in excess. After all the pilot reacted, and not only acted, as they said. This is, for me, the fourth contradiction.

    My explanation of the accident:
    The pilot found a thermal, so it went up. As it climbed, the trailing edge began to fall behind. At this point the pilot had his hands on top (which was correct). But the pilot realizes that a great part of his right wing (about 80% of the right side of the wing, as we see in the vídeo) advances suddenly. The pilot acts instinctively, pushing the right brake of the wing automatically and decisively. With this action the pilot automatically manages not only to stop the wing advance, but also to pump air to the leading edge, managing to stop the great asymmetrical collapse of the wing. So far, all the actions of the pilot have been successful. For me, the pilot could only have been wrong when he decided to keep the right brake always down, causing the stall on the right side of the wing. However, letting the wing dive to return the flight would be much worse, since the pilot was at low altitude and the wing would not have time to recover. The crash on the ground would also be much stronger. So, all the action of the pilot ended up preventing much more serious consequences, since the wing no longer had the height to recover.

  8. No hej! W 2ce pochwaliłem Was za cykl super. Niestety ta analiza jest trochę …"przerysowana"
    Pilot dostał noszenie. Skrzydło nie może być hamowane! Przy uderzeniu noszenia z przodu należy odpuścić sterówki.
    Sytuacja dość typowa . Uderzenie zatrzymuje skrzydło. Skrzydło staje w miejscu. Noszenie ustępuje, a skrzydło stoi. Gdyby nie hamował, skrzydło by zanurkowało i nabrało szybkości , czyli odzyskało ciśnienie.
    Błąd. Hamowanie do przeciągnięcia.
    Ten fronsztal nie jest wynikiem uderzenia rotoru, czy turbulencji tylko utratą ciśnienia w komorach. Skąd rotor? , z boku zza drzew?? Przy tak hamowanym skrzydle, gdyby miał uprzednio prędkość, fronsztal byłby niemożliwy. Sam wspomniałeś , że skrzydło było za plecami pilota, czyli na bardzo dodatnich kątach natarcia. Fronsztal występuje gdy skrzydło jest na ujemnych kątach pod strugami.
    Jak wspomniał TheMatgaw, pilot leci na NIE-odpowiednio przyhamowanym skrzydle, wręcz zduszonym. Już po pierwszym wzniesieniu winien odpuścić sterówki. Że nie radzi sobie, widać po konsekwentnym ściąganiu sterówek aż do ziemi.
    Panie Jarku, z całym szacunkiem do twojego dorobku: podstawą latania paralotni jest ciśnienie w komorach, czyli prędkość strug względem skrzydła. Od tego zależy wszystko w tej materii.

    Co zrobić? Kompensować uderzenie noszenia uniesieniem sterówek, to wszystko. gdyby miał speed, działo by się to samoczynnie, bez jego wiedzy.

    Jarek sam sobie zaprzecza. Skrzydła klasy B są właśnie odporne na przeciągnięcia. Ta seria i seria Aspen to wyjątkowo trudne do zwalenia skrzydła. Zapraszam do przeczytania testów na Para2000

    Trzymajcie tak dalej, Świetna seria
    mazby

  9. Nie zgadzam się, że deformacja by była mała. Spora bomba wchodziła. Bez przyhamowania skrzydła byłby duży asymetryczny front. Dobrze przypompował – wyłapał. Niestety nie dał mu potem lecieć.

    Wchodząc w takie nagłe wznoszenie warto odpuścić trochę sterówki, żeby mieć z czego potem łapać deformacje. Warto też wyczuć gdzie jest centro i zacząć skręcać, w tym przypadku pewnie w lewo.

    W sumie nie skończyło się też tragicznie. Lepiej na trawę w negatywce niż w rotacji. Zawsze coś ta szmata hamuje.

  10. Cool Video! I am so sick of all these crash compilations and its so cool that someone creates some real value of it! To my opinion its not necessary that the analysis is a 100% correct. I think its ok to give some hinds to start thinking about the wohle Situation. Just something beyond saying "Bad luck"

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